After the brilliant landing of the Phoenix on Mars, how can we not open this series of discussion postings other than with thoughts about exploring the Red Planet?! First, some thoughts on exploration itself…
Exploration is expanding human experience, and human consciousness.
Most of the universe we can only explore passively, sensing with our most powerful instruments radiation emitted from different times and places around our universe. Astronomy is exploration!
In the tiny confines of our solar system, we can actually interact physically with the environment we are exploring via probes, mostly operating at distances too great to permit teleoperation. Being able to teleoperate robotic systems in near real time brings a new dimension to remote exploration, as does virtual reality.
When all is said and done, however, the best vehicle to carry human consciousness to new environments is the human body, which is why I want to write first about human exploration. Each time I post to this site, I would like to put forward just a single thought and see what sort of discussion it might evoke.
The first thought on human exploration is ethical. Life is good, and I believe expanding life to lifeless regions is good. That is a reason to dream of living sustainably on Mars, the one potentially water-rich off-Earth place reachable by current technology with enough gravity to allow semi-normal human life. It is important to search as hard as we can with surgically sterilized robots, such as Phoenix, Opportunity, Spirit, Pathfinder and the Vikings, for Martian life, the presence of which would certainly constrain human activities. If our best on-site and remote measurements cannot detect signs of present life, however, then human explorers should follow our robots, both in order to enable a more thorough search for life, present and extinct, and also to extend the experience of what it is like to be on Mars, and to share this experience with humans who will never make the trip.
By Jared at 2:16 PM ON 08/01/08
As a proletarian working class individual from the same type of working class family, there was never the real opportunity to study the arts as from Promethean represented Beethoven as for the poet Shelly.
Then in a new discovery of self promotional gratification, a common offense of ethical civility began a natural defense to gain focus on the unexplained and unexplored.
Although actual memory lane is somewhere around the snail mail trail department, seeing the big picture is not just looking at the planet Saturn. Knowing that Saturn is made up of the main body with rings (a, b, c, d, e, f, g), has gaps, divisions, and moons (Phobe, Lapetus, Hyperion, Titan, Rhea, Dione, Tethys, Encladus, Mimus, Janus-Epimethus, Prometheus, Pandora, Pan) and etc is just a stop on the way. Furthering "why" the names were given, "what" similarities will assist in remembering, "how" do these motivations compare to surroundings, "where" is the access for more updated material, and "when" does this information effect and affect your decisioning...
...all led to a very simple tool that:
a perception of the effect/affect rule, or dirty little trick that's quick...
Is as simple as "e" is for explaining, ie; effect.
&
Is as simple as "a" is for after, ie; affect.
Well, it led to more than that, however, sometimes getting to the far side of complexity is rather simply the very proximity extension that will keep your instinctual nature there once you arrive.
Ousty...
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By Chaser at 7:14 PM ON 08/30/08
One of the greatest things about traveling to Mars and establishing colonys there hasnt been mentioned. As we are now planning, we can not only have colonys there, as we will first have small bases on the moon, but we will Learn, there, from experience, something no robot can do, yet. We will learn on the moon to go to Mars, and on Mars to get ready for even bigger leaps. When will we build starships? When we NEED them, thats all, the technology had been built and tested some time ago for engines using nuclear propultion that got 10% light speed, and Nasa was disapointed, it wasnt what they hoped for, so they threw it on a shelf, and as we know, even after billions of dollars spent, Nasa keeps records of NOTHING, older than a few years. This is the problem they are having with our Constilation program, they actually WANT to go backwards to an easier time in space flight, but they didnt even save the blue prints and were seen a year or so ago, going into museums and taking parts and displays to test and make plans from, how totally insane, to spend, how much??? In all these years and save nothing even for an emergency fall back plan. If I spent even a few hundred dollars I try to save things that are even too old to be of use, it might be silly, but it beats the alternative, as Nasa is seeing.
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By Roecar at 9:55 PM ON 09/02/08
I believe that human exploration isn't an option, it is a necessity. Human beings have always sought out the unknown. We have a need to understand everything around us. If for no other reason than to allay our fears. Though there are other reasons.
Every time we have sought, physically, and found the answers to the unknown. We have moved human thinking on to the next question. People no longer theorize and no longer fear the answer. The answer is now, a factual part of our world and therefore accepted by society.
It is this acceptance that the ordinary person needs, for they do not want their safety and security to be threatened. Please understand that I am not saying that there is anything wrong with this thinking. It also is important, for these people stablize civilization. Therefore giving those of us who spend our time searching for these answers a basic infrastructure that we can fall back on.
Human beings will explore space. We have no choice, it's in our genetic make up. Personally I do not believe that we will live on the Moon. Work on the moon with rotations back to Earth on a regular basis, Yes. But live there, No. Now Mars is a different story, we will need to live on Mars simply because returning will not be feasible in a timely or economical way, at least for the time being. But for the simplest and admittedly superficial reason is that none of us volentarilly moves to a place that is ugly. We all want beautiful sunsets, the Moon doesn't have that and Mars does. Remember we will have to convince our spouses and children to move, out-of-town. With the undoubtable in-law interferrance.
But we WILL go, regardless.
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By Eric at 1:04 AM ON 11/16/08
I wrote this and a few other blogs on Myspace in March of 2007. It pretty much covers most of my ideas and thoughts for the last 17 or 18 years. Hope it helps.
New Industry In America: The Mass Produced Spacecraft
Overview:
The design needs to maximize on "One Hull to Rule It All", meaning the engineers stop designing ships for just one mission, one landing, and one return. Reflecting on the needs of our species, the craft is designed to hold crews of at least 20 for socialization, yet give each crewmember their own stateroom, or design "homes" for families to live and function. Off duty needs such as recreational rooms, botanical gardens, swimming "pools" and such will have ample space. The design will also have ample space for the main mission specific requirements, such as intersolar exploration, astronomy (optical and radio), the "xeno" sciences, microgravity research, etc….
The ship will be very large at take off, even exceeding 1000 feet. How will it get to orbit? Use our atmospheric pressure to its fullest, dirigible lift. Think of the Hindenburg, it was 804 ft. long and 135 ft. wide, and held 200k cubic meters of hydrogen. That amount of hydrogen created 250 tons worth of lift, while the hull of the Hindenburg was about 125 tons. This left roughly 125 tons of nontaxed lift. With modern materials we could make the hull significantly lighter, my favorite being plastic resin made from plastic garbage mined from landfills. This ship wouldn't be designed to come back and land on earth; too much is needed in frame strength and re-entry heat shielding. There would be terran to orbit ships available, how many designs from the X-Prize designs alone? Back to getting to orbit. My design needs to use a more aerodynamic shape than the Hindenburg, for ease of explaining I use the V2 rocket. It flew over 4000 times; no other rocket design can say that. The Germans just took the most aerodynamic shape they had on hand, a rifle bullet. I scaled the V2 up by a factor of 20, and it was roughly 910 ft. long by 105 ft. diameter at its widest point. I didn't calculate the volume by it should still get me my 200k cubic meters needed to keep my math simple. We could stretch it to 1000 ft. by 115 ft. if needed. The V2's stabilizer fin design would have to go; I have other ideas for that. Replace the aluminum and steel hull of the Hindenburg, our ship would have a solid one piece cast plastic resin frame, which would be a lot lighter. If possible, when casting the frame add helium bubbles to the mix, which then the frame would have a bit of lift itself and add an inert gas helping with flammability issues.
Once the frame is cast and the internal components and wiring have been done, the outer hull needs to be cast around the frame. This will be done in layers, plastic resin first, possibly lead next, gypsum, then titanium, outermost would be the carbon-vapor diamond coat which would hopefully be a .25 inches thick. Layers of Mylar and Kevlar could be used like spacesuits and the ISS as well. Once in orbit the ship could have more layers added in an orbiting hangar. What would the protective properties of an inch of solid diamond be??? If polished titanium were directly underneath the ship's hull would be a mirror that could resist thousands of degrees of heat (read laser reflective, and close sun slingshot proof). The diamond should be able to handle re-entry anyway.
OK, now I want a larger margin for lift. Forget dangerous hydrogen. Helium can lift 96% of what hydrogen can, but it's inert, not flammable. On that note, my ship will do what a hot air balloon does, but to the helium instead of air. It's hard to find anything on this, but I did find in one Google search that heating the helium might get another 10 or 20% lift, which then get me my hydrogen lift capacity and then some. Remember the ship will be lighter, but now comes the part after floating up as far as the helium will get the ship.
Like the Hindenburg my ship design will need rotatable thrust ability, but instead of big combustion engines and propellers, my plan would be either ducted fan engines (possibly electric or wankel), small jet engines, or my favorite, small pulse ramjets. Think about the German V1 flying bomb "the buzz bomb", simple and effective. My thought about the pulse ramjets is that they would use air for the initial liftoff and go until the air was too thin, but what about feeding gas oxygen into them all the way to orbit. Liquid oxygen in rocket motors gets consumed very quickly, but on airplanes the liquid oxygen get used up far more slowly for pressurizing cabins and use on oxygen masks for flight crew. Also realize that air is mostly nitrogen, so when injecting pure gas oxygen, the volume needed would be less. My thought on how the pulse ramjets would be laid out would be 4 banks of 2 pulse ramjets each, and then the 2 pulse ramjets would fire opposite each other. If this worked then these would be the landing thrusters for Mars, the moon, asteroids, the Jovian moons, the Saturan moons, etc….Anything without an atmosphere and the moon or smaller would leave 10 million plus objects in this solar system. If the pulse ramjet idea doesn't work then I'd use a chemical or hybrid rocket motor for orbital insertion. There's wisdom in having short bursts of high impulse thrust. Remember, using my easy math and heated helium, I should very easily have 20 to 30 thousand pounds free for propellant for orbital insertion.
Let's say that everything so far works and now there's a 1000 foot long ship in orbit, how does it operate? The forward third has command, communications, navigation, research labs, and the actual front tip of the ship is actually a large lander craft. The mid section is basically a huge coffee can and rotates to give the crew gravity for the staterooms, hydroponics deck, agriculture deck, rec. rooms, botanical garden, fish tank ring, swimming ring, and gravity needed research labs. The aft would be engineering for power and propulsion, fuel tanks, and cargo bays. I can see it in my head but I stink at drawing 3 dimensional pictures. I've drawn side profiles which give a basic feel but I'd need a design engineer to draw it right. The ship couldn't leave until the hydroponics had finished one cycle and the crew had a stockpile of food on hand. Some heavy equipment would need to be brought up separately since weight is so critical on take off.
Spacecraft Construction, Materials, and Components:
A- The Hull: Some of this I brought up early on but this is where I hope to address the ship hull completely
1- At each construction facility there would need to be 3 buildings, the first will be the frame casting building, the second will be the outer hull casting building, and the third will be final assembly and testing. The launch pad needs only to be a large grass field.
2- Since plastics are a petroleum byproduct, production shouldn't rely on new plastics, at least not 100%. A healthier solution for Mother Earth will be to mine the plastics out of all the landfills. It's possible to use other substances from landfills-fiberglass, metals, glass, etc…The frame and the inner layer of the outer hull will be a plastic resin. The frame will contain helium bubbles to increase atmospheric buoyancy.
3- The carbon-vapor process currently only creates a coating 3 to 5 microns thick and is typically used to add protection for various objects. I have a few ideas to make the layers thicker and on top of one another to create a solid layer of diamond as thick as I need. My applications include the outer hull, internal crew "safe zones", cover the lander and small utility craft, cast diamond thrust nozzles, and plasma containment sphere and plasma injector tube for main space drive. Windows hatches and various other internal parts as well. If I need an Orion style thrust plate at the aft of the ship diamond is the way to go.
4- Outer Hull Ideas: I wrote already that putting diamond over polished titanium would give the ship a mirror like finish which could reflect laser but this would also be a poor man's cloaking device, just turn off the running lights. High speed solar slingshots could be done to get to the outer planets faster. Here's a dangerous idea: Since diamond could be used as a semi-conductor depending on what the layer is underneath the diamond, the entire outer hull could then be considered one big capacitor. Just add massive static charges and the human race would have lightning field generators. Get rid of those pesky particles, small meteors, or if needed a UFO or two. In many UFO crash landing "myths" the ship was knocked out of the sky by lightning because whatever their hulls are made of it's still a metal, my guess the product of liquid metallic hydrogen. Since the lightning is nothing more than a big arc of electric you wouldn't even need targeting computers, its self targeting. The only variable would be a given static charge amount would jump a given distance. Being in the vacuum of space will keep the charge better as well. I will stop here.
B- Internal Components: This is an area where most of what the ship needs internally is already being built. The American defense contractors are critical to the success of the mass production of spacecraft and on so many levels. Not only would the American public have to want this the big American companies would have to as well. I get into all the jobs that could be created later
1- Electrical Components: Flight Computers, Internal Navigation, External Navigation, Internal Power Supply and Distribution, Signal Wiring Harnesses, Avionics, Radar, Engine Indicating, Fuel Level Indicating, Communications, Redundant Systems, Recreational Systems like TVs and Sound Systems, Lighting, Hydroponics Lighting and Associated Systems, Waste to Power Systems (Methane via biowaste), Solar Sails (back up), Thermo-Electric Units (think water heater painted black and put in direct sunlight, will boil water so steam power-inner solar system use)
2- Mechanical Components: Landing Gear, Fuel Tanks, Roll & Pitch Thrusters, Lav (toilet) Equipment, Showers, Galley Equipment, Ladders, Hatches, Furniture, Ailerons, Flaps, Trim Tabs, Flight Deck, etc….
3- Thrust Components: The Pulse Ramjets, Chemical or Hybrid Rocket Motor, and my final design for the main drive. After verifying which of my plasma or "poor man's" fusion drive works, having the right company build it could mean life or death in regards to the quality of construction.
In one of my designs there's a chance that a byproduct of its operation will create a fake "Van Allen Radiation Belt" around the ship and protect the crew the same way Mother Earth protects all of us. Even describing the drives at all would give away too much and if any of them work I want my nation to be the benefactor, we need something new and different to make us great again, it sure as hell won't be a new war.
4- The lander that makes up the forward tip of the ship would be basically a large version of the Delta Clipper. That craft works fine; it's the planet they were testing it on which made it look bad, a lot of gravity and a dense atmosphere. Each lander should be designed with a large cargo bay and a garage for 1 or 2 rovers. If the lander was going to an asteroid then the mining team wouldn't need the rovers. The lander in a pinch could also act as a lifeboat. An air & food locker is always onboard
5- Besides the lander, there would be several smaller utility ships that are cone shaped and fit into cone shaped ports in the ship's hull. Mainly for maintenance, can be used for scouting (water ice, minerals, etc.), or as small lifeboats. Again, an air & food locker is always on board.
6- The Rovers don't have to be anything fancier than what we used on the Moon, aside from better batteries or internal power source, and better communication equipment. Enclosed and pressurized would be a perk but might go against simple utility.
7- Life Support: This is a most critical topic. To address the radiation in space, my hope is that a thick enough layer of diamond will do the trick. The density is what makes lead work, and diamond is far more dense. If needed a thin layer of lead could be placed underneath the layer of diamond, to hopefully create an accumulative effect. There will also be anti-radiation "bunkers" in key places in the ship and also the small utility ships would be properly armored as well. Air supply will depend on the upkeep of all the hydro-grown plants onboard. There will be scrubbers onboard but as back up. 200 square feet of plants can process the oxygen for 4 people, but only feed one person. Since the mid-section of the ship is like a rotating coffee can shaped space station, the outermost deck is the hydro farm deck. It would be thousands of square feet. Every crew member would have a few hours a day of botany detail, to earn their air and food. Small animals like rabbits, chicken, fish, maybe even goats. The operation would be similar to an Amish farm, only in deep space. The Amish know how to live on 1 or 2 acres for the whole family, and remember hydroponics grow to maturity much much faster than in regular dirt. Filling the ship's water tanks with water isn't really a problem. Send up enough from Earth to get the ship going, and then scavenge it from one of many locations. Mars, comet, Jovian moon, Saturn's rings or moons.
I think I need to bring up what the goal of this is. The goal is to start getting technological man off Earth once and for all. The crews make their living by getting raw materials off whatever they come across, hence needing cargo bays on the lander and on the big ship itself. They have to get their own water for the long term and grow their own food. A lazy crew would let themselves die. Strong crews would go out, then come back and have a huge amount of raw materials to sell in earth orbit. Imagine finding an asteroid the size of a house and is 75% gold, or platinum, palladium, zinc, copper, iron, maybe even diamond. The list is long. In the end we take what we want anyway, but here we hurt a living world, why not take from millions of lifeless worlds. In the truest sense, we would be bringing life to the lifeless worlds…….US
Let's think jobs. How many American jobs could be created by American's embracing this. My dream would be one spaceship building facility in each state, at least for the lower 48 states. Building a facility in each state would create hundreds or possibly thousands of jobs. Creating the industry of landfill mining would create thousands of jobs. Scaling up the industry of carbon-vapor diamond casting creates thousands of jobs, and making things out of cast diamond would explode. Please read my blog on this subject "The Greatest of All My Ideas". Once the contracts were drawn up with so many of America's large companies, they could then bring on more people and then also begin sub-contracting for smaller components. Heck, there could be a lottery for winning a small company where the winner would win manufacturing equipment, a small factory building, and a year of one the job training. Imagine doing this where a person would be good at a trade and take pride in it, and then pass the family business to a child or sell it and retire. An old world take on the industry of the future. Make it easy again for somebody to own a small business again and know their wares won't go out of demand.
When it's all said and done the new jobs would be in the millions. Remember your History Channel, when the Apollo Program was underway it created a huge boon for technical employment in this country. Imagine deciding to do that for 10,000 ships across one hundred years. Our allies would be buyers and heading out like this would actually prompt world peace. The countries that we aren't close with won't want to be left behind. It could also end the war on terror. How do you kill an ideology you can't catch.
Topics like health care, social security, education, and possibly even taxes would become a non-issue since we had the money to balance the budget and then invest in our future. If you are a parent and your child comes up to you and says "I want to be an astronaut", in a world like this that child might have a 50% chance. All this takes is for YOU to want it…
Thank You For You Attention, Eric
PS- Just an afterthought, has NASA ever realized that once they have a lander for Mars they have a lander for everything in the solar system except the gas giants, Venus, and our Homeworld?
By Jeremy at 11:56 AM ON 01/02/09
I have always had the same idea as Eric using a helium dirigible there is one problem with this the skin of the craft would have to be heated when a helium balloon is released it will freeze and bust when it reaches the upper atmosphere I have already told www.aerosml.com about this Idea they are working on a new kind of helium dirigible That would be capable of re-entry it would just have to get close enough to the atmosphere to take in air for weight to offset the lift of the helium as far as Thrust Components in atmosphere could use gasoline driven props and still our best bet in space is the new Plasma Rockets from www.adastrarocket.com once we have this done we could then build cargo ships, Transport, Etc. in sections and use two of the dirigibles to take the components into orbit for assembly. But of course none of this will ever happen unless we get a handle of our Governments over spending and Corporate Greed and the only way to do this would be to Get rid of Money all together force everyone to be equal to work together for our every need and want those who do not work do not get anything unless they are Disabled or of a set Retirement Age and of course Children because this system of us working for the Money People and our Government working for them instead of us is not working and it hasn't for quite some time now they get richer we get nothing.
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